Spirit Lovers

I’ve written a lot online over the years about my religious and spirit-work practices, on blogs, Livejournal, lists, websites… but I haven’t talked much about the most important parts, because they are too personal, too private. Most of the time, they wouldn’t be applicable to anyone else anyway, and besides which, some things just aren’t for public consumption. This applies not only to the deeper levels of my relationships with my gods, but especially to my dealings with my various spirits. I don’t just deal with “the spirits” in some generic sense, or with local nature wights (though they are important to me), I have a collection of personal, individual, named spirits who I’ve known for many years, and who are crucial not only to my Work but to who and what I am as a whole. I just don’t publicly speak about most of my life with Them.

However, at times I do feel conflicted about how much to share, simply because I understand how difficult and confusing it can be to be called by the spirits in any way and not have a community and/or tradition to give context to what one is experiencing. And, I think, it can be especially alarming to find oneself in a romantic/sexual relationship with a spirit or a god (each carries its own set of particular challenges), wondering if it’s even possible that you’re not making it all up, not having any concrete examples to model it after, flying blind.

Unfortunately, some of the more vocal examples of pagans with such relationships are not exactly the best role models. Or what they describe is questionable at best. So it’s refreshing to find a blog post like this recent one on Paynim [update: sadly, this blog has been taken down]ย about romantic relationships with spirits. The author manages to discuss it in an authentic way without over-sharing to a degree which might profane such a sacred experience. I encourage you to go check it out.

While I don’t exactly keep it a secret, neither do I mention it much directly, so let me just take a moment here (on this day which happens to be set aside for Him) to say that I too am in a relationship with a spirit, one that guides the course of my whole life. It is complicated and multi-layered and certainly challenging (especially the non-corporeal aspect), but it is as real, fulfilling, and powerful as any human relationship – with stronger bonds and deeper intimacy than I daresay could exist with another human (with all due respect to my mortal partner; we have always agreed that the divine relationships in our lives come first, which is one of the reasons I’m able to have both types in my life).

Our relationship plays out in both the otherworlds and this one via trance, dreams, ritual, aspecting and horsing, pathwalking, prayer, divination, omens… basically all the usual ways that mortal and spiritual beings communicate with each other. Only the longer we are together, the more constant that flow of communication is, and in some ways we are never separated, not entirely. Of course, that doesn’t lessen the pain of never being in exactly the same place for very long. It is both, in some ways, a long-distance relationship and the closest companionship imaginable. Welcome to life with a spirit lover.

I think, if I say much more, I will not know when to stop (there is just so much to this), but I did want to say something. For all those who might be wondering if they’re the only ones. You’re not. It happens. Not often, and it’s far from an easy road, but on the other hand I don’t know many people who would make a different choice, if given the chance. The rewards are too great.

And to add one last thing – outside of the modern pagan/polytheist communities (where such relationships are sometimes ridiculed or denied or taken too lightly), there are other resources for how to handle a spirit (or god) lover or spouse situation. Certain forms of traditional shamanism allow for or even expect such things. In Vodoun, there is a custom called maryaj lwa wherein a devotee formally marries one of the spirits. There are hints that some of the ancient Greek nympholepts had romantic relationships with the nymphs they served. And of course there are Catholic nuns, who literally marry Jesus Christ. I’m sure there are other examples. It doesn’t hurt to do some reading along these veins, as there are similarities even if the religious traditions are very different.

~ by Dver on November 7, 2010.

65 Responses to “Spirit Lovers”

  1. Thank you for this. .. It is especially timely for me today.

  2. This sort of thing is very real to me, but in a slightly different context. My relationships with spirits, not one of them is romantic, but it is definitely a very profound, intimate closeness. For obvious reasons you mentioned above, I tend not to discuss such things, while at the same time doing the “hiding in plain sight” routine. There are, as you said, way too many outspoken people giving this sort of thing a really bad rap.

    • Exactly. So I wanted to add a voice from the saner camp (me, an example of sanity? hmm…). I have plenty of non-romantic but intimate relationships with spirits as well, but those are a little less controversial.

  3. I’m happy to see you speaking publically about this, at least to some extent, and I know how difficult it is to do so, as well as to find a balance in how much to say. I initially made my decision to be public about my Marriage to Odin knowing full well that it would limit my ability to be taken seriously by the Heathen community–ironically, since there are, even in Germanic/Scandinavia polytheism, a couple of examples of priestesses either overtly married to their gods or involved in something that looks like marriage if you read between the lines, as well as several other individuals described as (or hinted as) being in an intimate love relationship with gods or spirits. Later on in the Marriage, I chose to say less in public because there were so many people coming forward with, as you say, questionable stories that I did not want to become a magnet for them. At this point, of course, I no longer care about “fitting in” to any particular community (either mainstream or woo), plus the oaths I have taken (particularly the most recent one) and the path I am on won’t allow me the luxury of *not* speaking about it, at least when appropriate. But that hasn’t made it any easier to find that balance, to know how much to share and when. The most important considerations for me are that I cannot speak about my spiritual life in any depth without at least touching on this, the center of it, and that I think there needs to be enough genuine information out there for people who are in similar sitations and may need reassurance that they’re not crazy and not alone, while also protecting the sanctity and privacy of my Marriage by not revealing too much.

    • It’s also trickier for you in that your relationship is with a well-known god, rather than an individual, unknown spirit. Makes it harder to navigate the public issue, I bet.

  4. This is great content. Not only is it true that marriages and relationships with spirits/deities occur in the religious aspects of several cultures, it is actually bound to happen somewhere wherever people know the spirits and deities. The Immortals can be our close friends, our guides, our rulers, our enemies, our associates and even our lovers. It is a lovely gift, a very special one, that some of Them, the best beings to ever exist, choose to be involved with us as lovers. I cannot count all of the reasons why, but some of them are that They lack human flaws; They truly understand us and They do not expect what others may expect.

    I have not read or heard many of the questionable claims that some of these more prominent “leaders” are making about their relationships with spirits. In my post which you linked to (eucharisto, btw) I wrote, “Now if somebody says, ‘So and so gods unexpectedly came to me one night and effed my brains out and it was so hot,’ I know for a fact that they are making it up.” This was based on something I read about three years ago on the Occult Forums site. It was the fluffiest and most fake crap I ever heard from somebody. Frankly I would be more willing to believe somebody’s claim to having a vision of the Virgin Mary standing near a shrine somewhere.

    I read Lady Rosamonde’s entry about her Marriage to Odhinn. See, that is believable and I know it is true. Our kind just know if something is true or false when it comes to spirits; spirits are our life.

    • Our kind just know if something is true or false when it comes to spirits; spirits are our life.

      Yes, that’s it exactly! The phonies I’ve run across are along the lines of “so and so effed my brains out, look how great I am”, and I wanted nothing to do with them. On the other hand, when I read accounts such as yours or Dver’s (although I’ve known about her situation for years; she’s a close friend offline) there is a humility there and a sense of awe that cannot be faked. I think we acquire a super-sensitive bullshit meter.๐Ÿ™‚

      • I know this is years later but I would have to definitely agree with you.๐Ÿ™‚ A super-sensitive bullshit meter indeed! I also have a knack for ferreting out whether people are making up stories or rather cautiously explaining weird experiences they really had. Consistency is one of them, as well as the humility, awareness, and ability to be honest about the pitfalls as well as the benefits from whatever they experienced. Their talk is less of “how special am I!” and more of “Well I like this part, but that part sucks, and that other part is like errrgh but I deal, and this is how I deal with it, and I know it’s not perfect but that’s what’s working for me right now. Oh I’m not sure about this particular part but as of right now x y z is what I think it is, but of course I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before. I’m still learning!”
        In any case, it’s led me to finding people who have genuine experiences rather easily and bonding with them over that, and having a “Back away <.<" reaction to those who aren't so genuine in their experiences. The more people go on about "what this experience MUST mean for them in this life!" the less I tend to believe them. It starts sounding too fanatical/obsessed after a while. The most believable for me are those who are hesitant about it and what they do share is internally consistent across time and doesn't really change much.

    • Edit: I typed, “I cannot count all of the reasons why,” but what I meant was, “I cannot count all of the reasons why relationships with spirits are the best.”

      Lady Rosamonde: I think we acquire a super-sensitive bullshit meter. So true! I do believe it is also part of being a telepath, empath or whatever one identifies as. =)

    • “it is actually bound to happen somewhere wherever people know the spirits and deities”

      Exactly. I think part of what makes many pagans uncomfortable about this is that it implies a real, sincere, literal belief in, and acquaintance with, the gods and spirits themselves. People with spirit lovers clearly are well past the stage of ambivalence regarding the actual reality of the divine world. And as we know, when you start spending all your time with Them, things happen – you get to know Them just as you would people that you spent all your time with. Unfortunately, many so-called polytheists still hold back from that sort of worldview, still prevaricate on the literal, individual existence of all these entities around us.

      • I have seen things online where a lot of pagans reveal themselves to be grossly offended whenever somebody expresses a realist position that the Gods and other spirits literally do exist. They find it “intolerant” and “fundamentalist.” Their spiritual relativism is rather unpleasant; they say, “polytheism is as true as monotheism,” which is illogical and tells us who they really are when it comes to the Gods. And when it comes to the Gods they have to interpret Them as archetypes, facets of a single deity and generally reduce the individuality of each Deity. I am so glad that I am not one of these people.

        • Definitely – I’m happy to say that both religious perspectives should be treated with respect and afforded equal rights and all of that, but it would be ridiculous for me to say that monotheism is just as true or valid as polytheism, because monotheism denies the existence of the very gods I worship. Nor would I expect a monotheist to say polytheism is just as correct. We can have differing beliefs and still be tolerant and polite about it, without having to go too far and say that we believe something we don’t, just to be P.C.

        • And when it comes to the Gods they have to interpret Them as archetypes, facets of a single deity and generally reduce the individuality of each Deity. I am so glad that I am not one of these people.

          As am I.

  5. This is a very refreshing article, it’s good to see such things spoken about in a frank way that does not, as you’ve said, give too much detail.

    People always ridicule what they do not understand, or more specifically what is outside their scope of understanding.

    Thanks for being a great example of someone who isn’t afraid to be honest.๐Ÿ™‚

  6. Lady Rosamonde,

    Might I just add I can sure understand why you wish to avoid the public issue in your case – I know I’m a total stranger but i just had to say, I know how horrible other people can be whether it be doubt, ridicule, envy, or whatever else. I admire your bravery.๐Ÿ™‚

  7. What a great post. This is certainly a question I have had before in my dealings with various gods and spirits–one which, frankly, scared the crap out of me and made me strongly suspect I was hallucinating. I haven’t ever had a spirit-spouse or spirit-lover, per se, but I would be lying if the interactions I’ve had with a couple of the gods I am closest to haven’t taken on very strong sexual, intimate undertones. I understand that this isn’t the same thing, of course, but it’s in the neighborhood and invokes some of the same confusions, I think. (Another great angle on this I’ve read was Sannion’s article of different ways people respond to Dionysos, one of them being as a lover and how such people are often confused or ashamed of being this way). Much respect for making such a thoughtful and public post on this matter. I think you’ll be helping more folks than you know.

    • Thank you, and I really do hope this helps people. At least it gets a conversation going, gives some things to think about. It’s all a spectrum as far as relationships with the gods/spirits, just like with people. You might have just one sexual encounter with a person, or be in a long-term relationship with them, or anything in between, and likewise these things can happen with divine entities. It’s just even *more* complicated with Them than it is with humans! If you ever want/need to talk about something you’ve experienced or have questions, feel free to email me privately.

      • Hi, I have a nightly visitor, last night he was there with me again. Last night was the first time that he spoke. I know it sounds unbelieveable, but he laid next to me…took my hand, stroke and kissed it,,,then we kissed. Before we kissed, he growled softly, but i was not scared, i let it be. I want it to be. Can you tell me more bout him, i really want to know all bout him.

        • I’m sorry, but I don’t know how I could possibly tell you about a spirit I’ve never met (except, perhaps, through my oracular work – in which case, you can request an oracle for the next session here: https://forestdoor.wordpress.com/oracles/). If he is speaking to you, maybe you can learn more about him directly.

  8. Thanks for this post, I find it particularly relevant. I’ve been in a complex relationship with a spirit for over a decade but I’ve been extremely reluctant to discuss it with most people not only because of how it can be regarded by those unfamiliar with the concept, but also because its not (apparently) very common in Celtic circles (it certainly does not show up in the history/mythology to the extent that it does in other cultures). It’s good to know that there are others with similar experiences.

    • Hearing things like this, I’m really glad I did end up making this post, which I debated doing for awhile. I wonder if it’s at least a little more common than any of us know, due to most people keeping it private. The Hellenic community doesn’t overtly have much to do with spirits at all (even though there is ample evidence for such activity in ancient times), much less in this kind of context, which is one of the many reasons I never quite fully fit in. I’m happy to just be doing my own thing now.

  9. Holy cow, there really *is* something in the air these days. By which I mean,๐Ÿ™‚, that I’ve been seeing stuff about daimons *everywhere* and it is just freakin’ uncanny. Thank you for talking about it.

    I’ve been wearing a ‘wedding ring’ for eight years now, which is inscribed with A MA VIE DE COER ENTIER, which is medieval French meaning ‘you have my whole heart for life’. When people ask, I tell them that I am married to myself, and that how should I be true to anyone else if I am not true to myself first? But, really, it’s to my daimon, my spirit lover, with whom I have had a profoundly meaningful and extraordinarily vivid relationship for ages now. If I know anything at all about kindness, compassion, or the sacred it is because I have learned it from him.

    And yes, it is really *quite* sexual. Husband, indeed.๐Ÿ™‚

    • Ha! I forgot I’m Rusty Jones iconically. That’s from another context entirely.๐Ÿ™‚

    • I’m finding it fascinating that, once the topic is broached, one finds that there are actually many people with some type of spirit lover/spouse, it’s just that most of us don’t talk about it much (if at all) to anyone else, or at least not publicly. I’m glad I could open the lines of communication a little, even if I’m still mostly going to keep it private.

  10. Dver,

    some have a gift for conveying Life through words and i am grateful to have stumbled upon your words as they have encourage me much. i am a solitary witch and have had a spirit lover for only a short while although it already surpasses any human relationship i ever had or could have with 99.999% of humansโ€ฆi am being gracious and open-minded with that .001% :>) although of course for some aspects the Relationship is beyond the touch of any human but you know this.

    desire and destiny and why She chose me i am beyond grateful. in as much as your words have encouraged me in return i hope my words are received as a warm embrace from a friend for you are my friend. how could you be otherwise when we share This type of blessing from above?

    although having a spirit lover may be rare in this season of our perceived human reality on that overarching span of infinity it is refreshing to have heard from another mortal in a way that deeply touches me.

    may peace and love and strength find you always,
    blessed be,

    i would prefer this to not be posted as it is meant for you . however should you feel otherwise i leave to your discretion. perfect peace and perfect love to you and yours…

    • All comments are posted automatically, it’s not up to me. However, I will go in and delete this from the site if you prefer.

      I’m glad my words made an impact.

  11. yes, i see that now. it is up to you to keep it here for all to see although i may have been a bit over the top. i just got really excited upon reading your blog and should not have had that second espresso which really let the words fly out perhaps a little too dramatically. all the same peace to you and, yes, you did make an impact on me.


  12. “I think, if I say much more, I will not know when to stop (there is just so much to this), ”

    I love to see you write more

  13. This actually means waves to me thank you for posting this. This is my life since birth untouched in a nut shell please keep posting more stuff like this it’s so important to share because the taboo needs to be removed.

    • I’m glad it struck a chord with you. I will definitely continue to discuss this sort of thing when appropriate… it’s just so hard to do so in a way that doesn’t share too much of my own personal life. Still, I do believe it needs to be out there, so people know they’re not alone.

  14. Thank you so very much for this article. I thought I was a freak for even being interested in the concept of spirit/deity spouses/lovers. I am one of those people who is not fulfilled by 99.999 percent of human relationships. My worldviews and lifestyle seem so rare that I am ridiculed for it, when everyone says that individuality should be celebrated. It certainly is not in the physical world, that’s for sure.

    While I do not have a spirit spouse or lover, and am not about to jump into anything hastily because it’s a big step, you know, I am extremely close to my 3 Welsh deities. But this sort of thing is rare in the Celtic pantheon. If it exists in Celtic circles, either I haven’t heard of it, the gods aren’t into such things and find it downright creepy, or their human spouses rarely talk about such matters. This hush-hush attitude makes me think it does not exist, or embarrassed to broach the subject with them

    If you look at the divorce rate today, you will see very few truly egalitarian relationships (those humans who have them, I can count on one hand). Most relationships I see, human or divine, involve power struggles at the concious or subconcious level, or subtle/obvious martyrdom on the part of one spouse (as in, they’ll sacrifice their own happiness for the good of the relationship, even at cost of slight/great discomfort/inconvenience.) The vocal god-spouse relationships I’ve read about seem more like coworkers, tit-for-tat, co-dependent, parent-child, teacher/student (as in, spiritual-teacher, seeker-student), god-owned/enslaved, or another combination in which the power dynamic is unbalanced in favor of the deity. While these work for many people, because perhaps many deities are more egotistical than others, none of these models appeal to me. I prefer a spousal relationship to be an egalitarian one, and think that even if deities are more powerful than humans, they can still have relationships without making the human feel patronized, condescended or belittled. Of course, it takes an enormous amount of emotional maturity from all parties involved to put aside your ego, have no emotional issues and create a happy relationship in which everyone is not dependent on another in an unhealthy way. Perhaps that is why a deity/human spousal relationship appeals to many people, but is laughed at because, in this world anyway, the “ideal” relationship is believed not to exist, when in the spirit world, it probably does, and those who have the courage to look there for companionship are put down.

    I feel bad that most spousal marriages are kept so quiet. Marriage between humans is celebrated and acknowledged in public, so why should those of a different realm be any less valid? I would welcome private communication from god-spouses, but if this is not possible, I understand and respect that. I just think if it were talked about more openly, people wouldn’t feel so alone.

    • I have actually heard of godspouses in Celtic traditions, but it does seem rare. Then again, it’s hard to really say, because most people keep quiet about this topic (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as it is mostly between god and spouse and no one else).

      While I certainly think there are many different dynamics possible between a god and a human spouse (and even most godslaves will be the first to say this), I do not know that it can ever be truly egalitarian. Gods are gods, they are by definition more powerful on a certain level, and they deserve our worship, even if we have a very intimate relationship with them. A god marriage is not just like a human marriage but with one member invisible. It is a fundamentally different arrangement, as it should be. Now, that doesn’t mean the mortal spouse must be demeaned, not at all. But neither should they treat their god like just another person. This is a very special, rare blessing.

      I understand the frustration that it’s hard to find people speaking openly about their god marriages. But on the other hand, there are good reasons for this. To claim being a godspouse is to claim a very intense, intimate relationship with a god that other people worship (and may even also be married to), and that’s a tricky situation. To declare it openly is in a sense forcing the issue of other people believing you, without necessarily knowing you well enough to make a justifiable judgment on the situation. Even in polytheist circles, the mere concept of god marriage in the first place can be highly debated, so it’s not as simple as just announcing it to one and all. That being said, I do appreciate those who choose to speak openly, because it does facilitate more understanding and communication on the subject.

  15. If deity marriages are not discussed openly, people like myself are under the impression that they are like human marriages, except that one partner is invisible. My Welsh deities do not require, request or demand worship from me, and I feel no desire to worship them, so perhaps most, if not all, Pagans consider that a shallow relationship. But I put it out there in case someone has that model, and they will know they are validated.

    I understand the sacredness of things, but by not talking about it, even partially, there is an implicit taboo there, and if you want to lift that, you need to be open. People who are going through the same thing might not be able to find common ground, receive suggestions/advice on things, etc.

    Also, with the exception of the sexual aspect, people in today’s society talk about their marriages all the time, even if it’s to say, “I’m married to so-and-so.” There are ways of talking about marriage (social activities, the benefits/pitfalls/challenges of marriage, spousal occupations) while still preserving the sacredness of their union. You cannot say, “it’s unlike a human marriage, you humans wouldn’t understand”, as that comes off as snobbish, rude, or just plain arrogant. I love the afterlife, and the best books I continue to read on the subject are those that try to use human terminology to describe an other-than-human world, even if they say, “there’s no way I can possibly describe it so you get the full scope, but I will try to give you an inkling, small as it may be.” And it works for me. I’m happy to have a description, even if it’s not a full one, and will gladly work with a person if they put things in ways I can understand. It shows they respect my intelligence, limited by human constraints as it is, but it has the capability of grasping certain things, even if it does not do so with full power of what those things actually are, and one cannot know them until one resides in the spirit world. Still, the best way to explain to humans what they don’t know, is to start with what they *do* know and try to move from there.

    Look at how many things were taboo in society 50 years ago that are not now, all because people like you courageously put it out there and talk about them. You also say a deity marriage is challenging. How so? Many people who are not in one do not know this, and instead of sweeping it under the rug because of fear of personal ridicule, it would be better to detail your experiences, so that someone does not marry a spirit thinking it to be something other than what you know it is. And you could prevent that person from making a mistake, or doing something he/she would regret later, etc.

    I, for one, really did enjoy your article and look forward to more on the subject.

    • You need to remember, though, that nobody is under any obligation to share *anything* personal in their spiritual life with anyone else, much less publicly to one and all. My first priority is always my spirits, not the edification of other humans. While I may choose to share certain things, and discuss certain things, on my public blog and websites, with the hope that it will help others along their paths, that doesn’t mean I should be pressured to share more than I’m comfortable with solely so that other people can get a better grasp of their own situation.

      I’m guessing you have no idea what it’s like to see your most sacred personal relationships profaned and ridiculed by people just because they don’t like you, but it’s not pleasant, and I would wish it on no one. So while I do sometimes wish more people would speak about this, I understand why they don’t. And frankly, am always a little suspicious of the motives of those who post their most intimate details with no reservations.

      I have no desire to break this taboo in greater society, nor even necessarily within polytheism. Some things *should* be taboo – it doesn’t mean they are bad or wrong, but simply that they are especially sacred and should be kept apart in some way. I take deity marriage very seriously – it is not an escape from human relationships, nor a way to make oneself feel special, nor a license not to otherwise maintain a proper devotional relationship. For the most part, it is between you and Them. Guarding it carefully makes perfect sense to me. While I may still talk around it in certain ways, I will probably never discuss the details of my situation directly with any but the most intimate friends.

      And frankly, sometimes it’s actually good for someone to not have a compass and have to rely solely on the gods/spirits directly for guidance and support. Especially in an area like this which is going to be so very different for each person. I forged my spirit relationship when I knew nothing of the concept, and thus we created something unique between ourselves. When I struggled, I had to return to Him over and over again, rather than looking elsewhere for answers. It created a stronger bond.

  16. The Paynim article is no longer available, so someone must’ve taken it down from WordPress (how disappointing!) I look forward to hearing more about god-spouses as they relate to Celtic deities, if anyone cares to discuss them, as it is a topic that piques my interest and curiosity.

  17. […] I suppose, like I did with my Spirit Lovers post, I just wanted to at least broach the subject, even if I must speak mostly in generalities. I […]

  18. You are under no obligation to discuss anything, but I’ve read the comments here, and they all seem to say, “thank you, we are grateful.” They are all expressing gratitude that you had the courage to face ridicule and put it out there anyway.

    Yes, I do know what it’s like to put your most sacred things out there on display for all the world to see. I have done it many times, and been ridiculed for it. It was not pleasant. It was not fun. It was hurtful and mean, especially coming from communities who were supposed to be supporters, or at least tolerant. And you know what? I didn’t care. I did it anyway. Because I recognized that it could help someone else potentially going through the same thing. I am sorry you had negative experiences with people when you tried to speak of your relationships, hoping that others would find them as sacred as you did, and instead, you felt profaned, maybe betrayed, by people you thought would be supportive and understanding. I’ve been there, and for me anyway, I cannot let fear dictate my life and keep me from doing what I feel must be done.

    If you do not want to break a taboo out of a genuine wish to preserve the sanctity of your marriage, that’s completely different from doing it out of fear of the perceived consequences it might bring. All I am saying is that you can’t just quickly broach a subject and then slam the door in people’s faces by refusing to talk openly about it to people who wish to know more, out of mild curiosity or sincere interest. As far as I could tell, all the comments on this article have been nothing short of positive, and that, to me, is a clear indication of the support network you have around you.

    Also, it is wonderful that you can forge your own path, but you must recognize that not everyone is able or willing to do this, and instead of saying that forging’s the only/best way, I think it would be more appropriate to say that it is one way out of many, that would work for certain people and not others. Some people do better going it alone, and some prefer being given details by other humans as well as spirits. Forging, or any single way, should not be forced upon anyone just because *you* felt it was the right way for you. It may have been the right or best way for you, but that does not mean it is the right, best, or only way for everyone.

    The general sentiment on this article is one of gratitude that you chose to break the taboo regarding deity marriage, and if you read the comments over again, I think you will find people saying you’re actually helping them by telling your story. That is something I think your deities would be proud of. From what I know of the Norse pantheon, they place high value on one’s courage, and given what you did by posting that article, I believe they would be honored and privileged to associate with you.

    I can only speak for myself, but I will go out on a limb and say that I think we all will be delighted to see any more posts you choose to share with us on this topic. Because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.

    My sincerest wishes for a happy marriage with your spirit kin for many years to come,

    • I realize that the comments here have been positive, and that my writing about this helps people, which is why I do it. But I balance that against how much I personally feel willing to divulge, and that’s a decision each person needs to make for themselves. It’s great that you are willing to speak despite your bad experiences, but please don’t impose that decision on other people. Yes indeed I *can* broach a subject and then refuse to talk more about it, it’s my blog, it’s my life I’m revealing. You’re the only person who seems insistent on my discussing things to your own personal degree of satisfaction. And please don’t try to tell me what my gods and spirits would want me to do (especially when you’re not even clear on who They are, as I follow primarily the Hellenic pantheon, not the Norse).

      I understand that not everyone is comfortable forging their own path, but that doesn’t make it my responsibility to pave the way for them. I leave what signposts I can, which is my contribution, but in fact I’m not obligated by anyone or Anyone to speak at all. I am not “forcing” you to go it alone simply by not providing you the information you’d like to have about my personal spiritual relationships (which may or may not even apply to your situation). If you step back, you may see how this type of response, this aggressive insistence that I share more, is the sort of thing that makes me want to do just the opposite.

  19. I’m aware you worship Hellenic, but recall a bit of Norse for some reason, and was saying that perhaps they feel positive emotion toward you (I know they value bravery), rather than telling you what to do. I was offering my wholehearted encouragement that, should you feel the need or desire to post on this topic again, to not be hesitant to do so (I recall you saying you were hesitant to post because of negative reactions from communities). Refusing to post something because a deity had laid a taboo on you not to do so, or because you wish to preserve the sanctity of a union, is entirely different from refusing to post something out of fearful anticipation of negative consequences.

    I re-iterate that it is not your duty to say anything, and you may divulge or withhold as much or as little information as you wish. However, that also means that if someone comes to you because they are intrigued about a topic (particularly one where so little information is available) and they wish to know more, and you flat-out refuse to help them and do not point them to other sources, it really does come off as snobbish, rude and unhelpful on your part. If a student comes to me seeking information, I am obliged to help them, but it does not feel obligatory because I am happy to take on the responsibility of assisting them in any way I can. I respond to their inquiries to the best of my ability, but if I cannot or won’t answer their questions for any reason, I politely explain this and then point them to other sources I know of, other connections I have, that I feel would be of assistance in finding the information they are looking for. And if I do not help them, who will? Perhaps another, but then again, I may be the only one around for miles, or they may not come across another person with similar information for a long time, if ever, so I am glad to help.

    I have a disability, and often get asked a lot of questions, or requests to divulge information that I wish to remain private. I used to have the “I’m not obligated to help you” stance, until people were telling me that I was the first person with my particular impairment they came across, and this softened my attitude a bit, and helped me recognize that like it or not, I am a public example because I’m, well, out in public. No, I’m not obligated to share anything, but it would be rude of me not to. I have a choice, but I also have a responsibility once I make that choice. There are ways of divulging information to people’s satisfaction while simultaneously keeping what you wish to remain private, private. If a question is repeatedly asked, it means that it was not answered satisfactorily, and rather than blaming the questioner for asking the question, a kinder response would be to do all in your power to help them find the information they are looking for, since they came to you in the first place.

    • So now I’m snobbish, rude and unhelpful for not complying with your sense of how much of my private life you are entitled to know about. (Though I don’t even recall you asking specifically for any particular information, nor for other resources – not that there are many to offer.) I have made a general post detailing my final thoughts on this matter here: https://forestdoor.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/clarification/
      Please let that be the end of it. I am clearly not going to give you what you want, good luck in finding it elsewhere.

  20. I only said your posts came off that way, not that you were spicifically that way. There’s a huge difference. Here are my questions the article did not touch upon.

    You say you’re married to so-and-so and you visit each other’s realms, but what exactly do you *do* there? Activities? Hobbies? What are the shared interests that drew you together?

    What do you enjoy about being married the most? What do you dislike?

    You talk about worship and devotionals to your deities, but some people who have patrons have rituals for them also. What, in your oppinion, is the difference between a deity marriage and a patron relationship?

    What, in your oppinion, is challenging about a deity marriage, aside from the non-corporial aspect?

    There are spiritworkers without god-spouses. Since you are both, what do you think is the difference between spiritworkers and god-spouses, if any? Do they overlap?

    How long have you been married? How and where did you meet? Who proposed to whom? Or was a proposal even part of it? I wonder if the otherworlds have different customs than Earth does?

    Since you claim a deity marriage is not akin to a human marriage where the other partner is invisible, then what exactly is it to you? How, in your mind, is it similar or different?

    I actually have no ill feelings toward you. If you want to know the truth, I think you are a beautiful writer and I enjoyed your article very much, though I did not find it particularly earth-shattering or helpful. Perhaps it is because I do not question the validity of your marriage, and can’t understand why anyone would ridicule or deny your experience, or anyone else’s for that matter.

    I have no interest in religion or spirituality, and consequently do not have either. I am simply someone who finds the topic of spirit-lovers fascinating. I make no separation between the magical and the mundane, but live a secular life, so am not attracted to religious or spiritual gatherings. I suppose, in your community of spiritworkers, I am what you call laity. I make no offerings or sacrifices, say no prayers, recite no chants or spells, enact or attend no rituals. I just talk to my entities every day as I live my secular life. The closest thing a spirit-spousal relationship looks to me is that of coworker. Perhaps this is because most people who talk about god-spouses happen to be spiritworkers. That leads me to believe in some kind of corolation. Am I correct or mistaken?

    I prefer we amicably part ways, and am grateful if you choose to answer my questions, but if you cannot, after you politely decline, I ask that you please have the courtesy of referring me to someone who can, or at least someone who is willing to share their experience, even privately. And if that’s not possible, no harm done. At least I tried.
    With kind regards,

    • No, that is not what I would call “laity”. If you have no interest in religion, do none of the basic elements of religion (that even the most average everyday member of a religion would be expected to do occasionally), you are not laity in a religion, you are simply non-religious. Which is fine, but let’s be clear about it.

      I will not be answering your questions, privately or otherwise. First of all, after all your other comments, I have no desire to put any more energy into satisfying your curiosity, especially as now it is confirmed to be simply that (rather than a genuine need for guidance from someone on a similar path, which would be more compelling). Some of your questions are much too personal to discuss with a stranger. The others may actually prove some fodder for future blog posts, but not at the moment.

      I honestly know no other people in spirit/god relationships who would enjoy answering a bunch of extremely personal questions simply to satisfy the curiosity of someone who isn’t even practicing their religion. There are some very public god-spouses, especially in the Northern Tradition, so you’ll find someone to interrogate if you try hard enough, but don’t be surprised if you get a similar reaction from them. Please, however, move your attentions elsewhere now.

      • Dver, from the peanut gallery, I agree neither you nor anybody who’s on a spiritual path has an obligation to point somebody in any direction if you don’t want to answer questions like this. I’ve personally yet to see you claim to be a teacher of any kind, in any of your blogs or websites, over the years. Besides that, nobody HAS to do anything. Ever. Because we’re grown-ups. And no means no.๐Ÿ™‚

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s